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	Comments on: The Ebbeling vs. Hall Trials: Re-visiting How Diet Affects Energy Expenditure &#038; Weight Loss (part 2)	</title>
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	<link>https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Harry D.		</title>
		<link>https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-8085</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2020 03:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fitgreystrong.com/?p=1307#comment-8085</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Check this &quot;game changer&quot;:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.27.20220202v1.full-text]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check this &#8220;game changer&#8221;:<br />
<a href="https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.27.20220202v1.full-text" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.27.20220202v1.full-text</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: seanwilso		</title>
		<link>https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-2408</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[seanwilso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Mar 2017 13:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fitgreystrong.com/?p=1307#comment-2408</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear readers, If you have any comments or questions regarding this 2-part series please contact me via the &quot;Contact Us&quot; option or leave a comment in the post comment box. There has been quite a few regular readers of both these and I would appreciate some feedback or discussion regarding your thoughts. Cheers Sean]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear readers, If you have any comments or questions regarding this 2-part series please contact me via the &#8220;Contact Us&#8221; option or leave a comment in the post comment box. There has been quite a few regular readers of both these and I would appreciate some feedback or discussion regarding your thoughts. Cheers Sean</p>
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		<title>
		By: seanwilso		</title>
		<link>https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-2406</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[seanwilso]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2017 02:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fitgreystrong.com/?p=1307#comment-2406</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-2405&quot;&gt;George Henderson (@puddleg)&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for the comments George. Was not aware Naude et al had been re-assessed by Harcombe &amp; Noakes. I&#039;m not a massive fan of meta-analysis studies as the heterogeneity within the studies included is often context specific and making definitive conclusions is therefore problematic. 

Whilst I do not doubt your observations with the people you work with who are suffering from alcoholism, I would like to see such reported alcohol energy intakes scrutinised under study conditions where these intakes can be corroborated. As you would know, research has shown that self-reported food/drink consumption by those overweight or obese is grossly underestimated. I wonder in the same way if the reported caloric intakes reflect actual intakes or guesstimations from those suffering from alcohol abuse. It would certainly be challenging trying to get accurate data from self-reports if those that are highly intoxicated given the accompanying cognitive and memory deficits. 

Most of the data I have reviewed shows that in general, insulin secretion decreases with concomitant weight/fat loss irrespective of dietary composition notwithstanding that a greater reduction is seen for low carb diets. Whilst I agree with you that all components of the diet influence this change, other lifestyle-related components also coalesce to have an impact; exercise, for example, has a prominient reducing effect whilst sedentarism or prolonged sitting tends to contribute to an increase (http://fitgreystrong.com/sitting-yourself-to-death/) independently of diet. I would also be interested to see if insulin elevation can accompany loss of fat mass. That would perhaps require, an intervention where a weight maintenance very-low carb diet phase (that aims to maximally decrease insulin at weight maintenance calories) is followed by an energy deficit higher carb diet (with physical activity and sedentary behaviour equally matched). I would also like to see an isoenergetic overfeeding study that compares protein-matched, very high-fat diet to a very high carb (also high in refined sugar) to ascertain if fat mass gain is independent of insulin production. My prediction is that insulin production would be different but fat mass gain would be the same. The other interesting aspect of this would be to see if such overfeeding affected the worsening of metabolic risk factors differentially i.e overfeeding fat is better than carb.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-2405">George Henderson (@puddleg)</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments George. Was not aware Naude et al had been re-assessed by Harcombe &#038; Noakes. I&#8217;m not a massive fan of meta-analysis studies as the heterogeneity within the studies included is often context specific and making definitive conclusions is therefore problematic. </p>
<p>Whilst I do not doubt your observations with the people you work with who are suffering from alcoholism, I would like to see such reported alcohol energy intakes scrutinised under study conditions where these intakes can be corroborated. As you would know, research has shown that self-reported food/drink consumption by those overweight or obese is grossly underestimated. I wonder in the same way if the reported caloric intakes reflect actual intakes or guesstimations from those suffering from alcohol abuse. It would certainly be challenging trying to get accurate data from self-reports if those that are highly intoxicated given the accompanying cognitive and memory deficits. </p>
<p>Most of the data I have reviewed shows that in general, insulin secretion decreases with concomitant weight/fat loss irrespective of dietary composition notwithstanding that a greater reduction is seen for low carb diets. Whilst I agree with you that all components of the diet influence this change, other lifestyle-related components also coalesce to have an impact; exercise, for example, has a prominient reducing effect whilst sedentarism or prolonged sitting tends to contribute to an increase (<a href="http://fitgreystrong.com/sitting-yourself-to-death/" rel="ugc">http://fitgreystrong.com/sitting-yourself-to-death/</a>) independently of diet. I would also be interested to see if insulin elevation can accompany loss of fat mass. That would perhaps require, an intervention where a weight maintenance very-low carb diet phase (that aims to maximally decrease insulin at weight maintenance calories) is followed by an energy deficit higher carb diet (with physical activity and sedentary behaviour equally matched). I would also like to see an isoenergetic overfeeding study that compares protein-matched, very high-fat diet to a very high carb (also high in refined sugar) to ascertain if fat mass gain is independent of insulin production. My prediction is that insulin production would be different but fat mass gain would be the same. The other interesting aspect of this would be to see if such overfeeding affected the worsening of metabolic risk factors differentially i.e overfeeding fat is better than carb.</p>
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		<title>
		By: George Henderson (@puddleg)		</title>
		<link>https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-2405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George Henderson (@puddleg)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 01:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fitgreystrong.com/?p=1307#comment-2405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A couple of points on a quick perusal
- Naude et al is not worth citing as evidence of no difference between isocaloric diets, the reanalysis by Harcombe and Noakes shows that when data extraction errors are corrected the results favour higher fat diets
- I work with alcoholics who often report caloric intakes of 4,000 kcal or more daily from ethanol for long periods, yet present as non-obese and sometimes underweight. This illustrates that not only macronutrients, but also micronutrients determine energy partitioning.
- Hall&#039;s latest review of these trials leaves many questions open. He has falsified the idea that weight loss is always directly proportionate to insulin reduction, but I await a trial in which an elevation in insulin accompanies the loss of fat mass. 
However, insulin secretion itself is a response to all the components of the diet together (although it will not rise in response to a 100% fat). The carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis as I understand it relates to the chronic use of refined carbohydrates in the usual diet, with all its other flaws.
it is generally accepted that the Earth revolves around the  Sun, but when Copernicus first propounded the evidence for this, he assumed that all Heavenly bodies moved in perfect circles, so resorted to a complex ad hoc system of epicycles to explain this. Kepler later, using Brahe&#039;s data, completely disproved the existence of epicycles and placed the planets in elliptical orbits which would have been anathema to Copernicus. But he did not disprove the heliocentric theory; he merely showed that the first statement of it contained much error, and that there was a better explanation for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of points on a quick perusal<br />
&#8211; Naude et al is not worth citing as evidence of no difference between isocaloric diets, the reanalysis by Harcombe and Noakes shows that when data extraction errors are corrected the results favour higher fat diets<br />
&#8211; I work with alcoholics who often report caloric intakes of 4,000 kcal or more daily from ethanol for long periods, yet present as non-obese and sometimes underweight. This illustrates that not only macronutrients, but also micronutrients determine energy partitioning.<br />
&#8211; Hall&#8217;s latest review of these trials leaves many questions open. He has falsified the idea that weight loss is always directly proportionate to insulin reduction, but I await a trial in which an elevation in insulin accompanies the loss of fat mass.<br />
However, insulin secretion itself is a response to all the components of the diet together (although it will not rise in response to a 100% fat). The carbohydrate-insulin hypothesis as I understand it relates to the chronic use of refined carbohydrates in the usual diet, with all its other flaws.<br />
it is generally accepted that the Earth revolves around the  Sun, but when Copernicus first propounded the evidence for this, he assumed that all Heavenly bodies moved in perfect circles, so resorted to a complex ad hoc system of epicycles to explain this. Kepler later, using Brahe&#8217;s data, completely disproved the existence of epicycles and placed the planets in elliptical orbits which would have been anathema to Copernicus. But he did not disprove the heliocentric theory; he merely showed that the first statement of it contained much error, and that there was a better explanation for it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sandra C		</title>
		<link>https://fitgreystrong.com/the-ebbeling-vs-hall-trials-re-visiting-how-diet-affects-energy-expenditure-weight-loss-part-2/#comment-2404</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sandra C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 01:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fitgreystrong.com/?p=1307#comment-2404</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Awesome read and totally agree with your final remarks. Well done!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome read and totally agree with your final remarks. Well done!</p>
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